Thought Archive

Monday, November 10, 2008

Versions of History

If only there was a world without Islam - a dream kingdom of Islamophobes - it may not look too different to a current world for Eastern Christianity would supplant and feed Anti-Western ideology - according to an article in Foreign Affairs. Middle East would be a pawn and a headache whatever the religion of its inhabitants may be.

Continuing in the vein of historical "ifs" for today is an anniversary of Crystal Night. If there were no Holocaust, there would be no Palestinian problem, for there would be no Jewish state. It is inconceivable that it may have appeared other than a result of a Post-War settlement. Iran and Palestinians should really be blaming Germany and Germans for disposing of Europe's Jewish population.


NoolaBeulah said...

True. True. The real point is the presence of oil, and Islam has nothing to do with that.

Phil Marx said...

The Jews have been reviled in every Western European country. Although the Nazi example is the most well know, there have been many instances of persecution over the course of many centuries. I am not arguing whether their treatment by the majority populations was fair or not, simply that they have frequently been viewed as an unwanted group of people.

Germany did not have a monopoly on anti-Semitism, and it is very likely that absent the Third Reich, Western Europe may have still sought to find a solution to what they perceived as their “Jewish problem.” Large areas of the Middle East, Africa, and Asia came under solid control by Western Powers (mostly Britain and France) after the end of WWII. I would posit that if Hitler had never risen ad attempted to clear the Jews out of the continent, then it is very likely that some other country would have.

Seriously, think about it for a moment. Britain and France ruled Palestine and the areas around it. Suppose they had tried to appease Hitler by offering him a place to dump the Jews. They could have even thrown in their own Jews for good measure. If the land in question was Palestine, the Jews might have even willingly accepted.

I understand your point that Germany’s persecution of the Jews directly led to Britain dumping them in Palestine, but I am simply saying that the story is much more complex than that. Britain and France tried to exercise control over these areas without truly offering governance. An occupying power never holds legitimacy and it necessarily creates more problems for the people being occupied than they could ever pretend to be fixing. The point that I am making here is simply that even if Britain had not dumped the Jews in Palestine, their illegitimate rule over the area would have probably created major problems regardless.

Look at the case of Rwanda. Britain posed the two major ethnic groups against each other as part of their plan for governing the area. Even many years after Britain left, the problem they created remained. Remember the 100,000 refugees that were killed there in less than a month period of time during 1990’s. Thank Britain for that. So here is an alternative scenario to consider.

It is obvious that Westerners and Africans do not hold the franchise on having major rifts within ones own culture. Look at Iran and Iraq for proof that the Islamic world has not perfected Peace any better than anyone else has. So what if the Jews had never been dropped in Palestine. Is it not possible that their presence caused different Muslim groups to unite in opposition to them? So if Jews in Palestine never existed, perhaps the Palestinians and Jordanians or Syrians would be bitter enemies today, instead of brothers in arms.

Oh the many possibilities - What if?…..

Hazar Nesimi said...

Thats why it is useless to engage in historical what ifs. The world would probably be just as bad with or without Muslims, Jews or Communists. People have a need to to butcher other people regardless. If there was no oil, Noolabeulah, Middle East would be dirt poor and even more unstable.

Phil Marx said...

So is there something emdemic among humans that makes us want to kill each other from time to time? Maybe it's just the need for resources, and the religious and cultural identities are nothing more than excuses to act on our impulses.

It seems that when you look at history of entire world, the only time people stop killing one group of people is when they band together to kill another. And then, as soon as that threat is gone they go back to killing each other.

Look at beginning of Holy Crusades. Pope Urban basically said "Don't waste your time killing each other when there are plenty of foreigners that you could be killing." - and we called that religion! It doesn't seem that other civilizations have practices the art of peace any better than the Europeans have either.

Riri said...

If there were no humans, there won't be no bloody history!

Some might see in this a perfect reason to kill off all humans!